In this episode, Mike Gardon chats with Susan Hamilton Meier. Susan is a personal branding expert who helps women untangle the zigzags of their careers to find a clear, shiny thread of their story and design the next steps for the professional journey.
For more than 20 years, Susan has helped Fortune 500 companies define brand strategy and create distinctive messaging. She uses these tools, along with what she’s learned on her own zig-zag career path across business, art, and parenting, to empower women to craft their personal brand and discover a roadmap toward a life of purpose.
An alum of Harvard Business School and the Boston Consulting Group, Susan is on a mission to empower professional women to own their stories and unlock their promise.
IN THIS EPISODE, YOU’LL LEARN:
- Susan’s background
- What is a personal brand and why is it important
- Keys to a personal brand
- Be authentic
- Focus on connecting with one person
- How who you are connects with where you want to go/who you want to be
- How zigzag career paths can be very positive
- The Great Reassessment vs The Great Resignation
- How can people become more creative?
- How Susan transitioned to working for herself
- Who can get the most out of working with Susan
HELP US OUT!
Help us reach new listeners by leaving us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts! It takes less than 30 seconds and really helps our show grow, which allows us to bring on even better guests for you all! Thank you – we really appreciate it.
BOOKS AND RESOURCES:
- Your personal brand is the story you tell about yourself.
- Susan’s Brand Story Quick Start Guide
- Connect with Susan on her website, LinkedIn, Instagram and Twitter.
Disclaimer: The transcript that follows has been generated using artificial intelligence. We strive to be as accurate as possible, but minor errors and slightly off timestamps may be present due to platform differences.
Mike (00:00):
Hello. Welcome back to another episode of CareerCloud Radio. I'm your host Michael Gardon, and I'm on a mission to help you all break work, to unlock meaningful careers that you choose and control. My guest today is Susan Hamilton Meier. And we're talking about personal branding in the context of a career change or what Susan calls zigzags. I've always struggled to articulate my brand, given that I've changed my career so many times. So when Susan reached out, I was intrigued about why zigzag a career is so difficult, but also why it's a blessing and not a curse. Susan Hamilton Meier is a personal branding expert who helps women untangle the zigzags of their careers to find a clear, shiny thread of their story and design the next steps for the professional journey. For more than 20 years, Susan has helped fortune 500 companies find brand strategies and create distinctive messaging. She uses these tools along with what she's learned on her own zigzag career path, across business art and parenting to empower women, craft their personal brand, and discover a roadmap toward life and purpose and alum of Harvard business school. And the Boston consulting group. Susan is on a mission to empower professional women, own their stories, and unlock their promises. I hope you enjoy this episode, Susan, welcome to the show. So glad to have you.
Susan (01:08):
Thank you so much for having me.
Mike (01:10):
I'm really excited to talk with you about this idea of personal branding. As I was kind of talking to you a little bit before we started, I've had a few personal branding experts reach out on the podcast. Hasn't really been something I pulled the trigger on, but what really intrigued me about you and your story was this kind of idea of helping people with Zig Z career paths. And I'm a person that as my audience really knows, I've had about six different careers. I feel like, and I, I probably won't ever stop
Susan (02:12):
Sure. I can, uh, tell you the story of my life in a nutshell. Um, and, and you'll quickly see that there's a reason that I've gravitated toward working with people and writing about the zigzag path because that is very much my own. And I really relate to what you were just saying. And I think that it's something that a lot of us who have so many, I mean, most people have so many different interests and facets to who they are. And so it's not surprising that there are things that pull us in different directions, some of which earn more money than others, but are, you know, perhaps equally important in our sense of identity and you know, how we wanna craft our careers. So I was an art major in college art and art history. And that has always been my kind of passion hobby, whatever you wanna call it.
Susan (02:58):
And, I was offered a job in consulting. These firms kind of come to campus and they do a big recruiting show. And I remember the reason I was drawn to it is I went to one of these information sessions and they said, are you a person who enjoys solving puzzles? I mean, not actual table puzzles, but like kind of unraveling the bits and pieces of a problem and figuring it out, and guess what that's called strategy. And so if you are interested in that, come and chat with us. And so I did, it was the Boston consulting group, um, was the company I ended up working for. And those big management consulting firms, do this type of interview where it's a case study interview. So they give you kind of this setup like, okay, this company has this problem. And you know, you can ask us questions to help us figure out the solution.
Susan (03:45):
And they use that as a way of figuring out how you think. And I just found all of those interviews, those problem setups, and like the way of kind of farting out the information and putting pieces together in a new way. Super, super interesting. So that was where my interest in strategy came from. Even though I had never taken an economics class, I had no business experience whatsoever. And, um, you know, I'm very grateful that a firm like BCG took a chance on somebody like me. I learned so much working there, but I was always on the side kind of writing, making art, and pursuing that stuff, which is not that easy when you have a kind of very demanding job. And then also what happens, I think is that you get your sort of sense of identity is a little bit wrapped up in your job description, especially when you're young.
Susan (04:33):
And so I suddenly became like, oh, you're a business person. You know, you're a consultant, you're this type of person, which in fact, I wasn't really that type of person at all.
Susan (05:20):
I got to do a lot of travel around Southeast Asia. I lived in Singapore for a couple of years and I landed that second job in Singapore, which was not at all my plan completely unexpected, but turned out to be an amazing experience. So I ran a nonprofit repertory theater there for two years and then really hesitated about going to business school because you know, you do again, you kind of, you become forever an MBA once you have an MBA
Susan (06:03):
And particularly the people that I met, I went to Harvard, which is, you know, an amazing institution and people from all over the world and all walks of life. And, and so I spent two years there, uh, went back to BCG for a couple of years. They're generous enough to help you with your tuition. So that's, uh, a very nice thing, but also I, you know, I really did enjoy consulting and I was lucky enough to land there during a time when we were doing a lot of consumer goods work, particularly around, it was a time when the internet was taking off, people were, as it turned out, it was really a branding challenge, right? Like how does our brand live in this new universe called the internet when we've always defined ourselves in terms of bricks and mortar. And so that's where I started to learn about this discipline of branding.
Susan (06:46):
And as I then researched kind of what that was all about, I started to freelance. So, I left BCG after two years after business school. And I thought I'm gonna take some time and, you know, just make art. It's been a very busy, you know, it's a busy lifestyle. I wasn't sure what I wanted to do next. So I got a studio in Brooklyn and I just made art all day long. And I paid the bills by doing some freelancing and also started selling my artwork. And so there was a little bit of a fork in the road there, like, do I double down on this art career and try to get representation and really make that my primary career, or do I pursue this kind of brand strategy world that I'm just starting to get to know? And honestly, the reason that I chose the brand strategy was that I really wanted to keep the artwork something that I do for myself.
Susan (07:36):
And probably because I've gone to business school, I had this like supply and demand in the back of my head. So I started noticing that people would buy those blue paintings, I guess I should make more blue paintings, which is a terrible way to be an artist, right? It's a good way to be a business person. So, sorry, this is probably a longer story than you were looking for, but this is the zigzag path, right? Like you're all, you know, and that's why I'm telling it in some detail. Anyway, I'll cut to the end of the story, which is, that I spent about 10 years working in branding agencies and then started my own partly driven by I was a mom of young children. And so I was looking to find a lifestyle that, you know, the kind of freedom and flexibility that I wanted as a parent of young kids. And also the ability to sort of do the type of work that really suited me and where I could have some input on the design side. And I could be the one writing the messaging because those were the things that I really enjoyed. And it turned out actually to my surprise that I really enjoyed being an entrepreneur. So that was also a nice kind of learning and certainly has made that journey of running a business easier. The fact that I actually really enjoy running a business.
Mike (08:45):
Yeah. I actually love the long story when people ask me, Hey, oh, Hey, what do you do? I, my first question back to them is how much time do you have? Because I feel like I can put the thread together and tell it in a way that makes sense to me, of the windy path of how I got to be where I'm at. But it's always a question mark of does that land. You know, that's a,
Susan (09:09):
And so that's exactly right. So that's exactly what people come to me for now. So I spent a couple of years, I mean, spent 10 years doing corporate branding. I still do some corporate branding, but kind of happened organically in the last three or four years when I started working with individuals either who were starting companies of their own or were just at a crossroads in their career going, oh, wait, you do this, you can take that messy story and turned it into something tight. And so it started from that perspective, finding, as you said, finding the through the line of like this whole glorious mess of all the things that you've done and there is a through the line, but it can be. And I think the reason I like to tell my long version of the story is that see how hard that is to tell.
Susan (09:51):
And when you, you know, you don't always have this opportunity that you're giving me to tell that whole story, right? You meet somebody and you need to kind of find that ten-second version that gives them a little bit of color, makes it interesting and memorable, but also is kind of clear and compelling and relevant to whatever it is that you're talking about with that person. So finding the through the line of your story is kind of the angle that I come at it from in terms of how are you then? Cuz of course what people want. People don't really care. It's not like people come to me and they say, I'm super excited about building my personal brand. Right.
Mike (11:04):
Right. Makes sense. Before I get too far down the hole of personal branding, I do have one follow-up from something you said very early and I just can't let it go. So you kind of told the story about how your BCG was sort of re-recruiting and, and you really enjoyed that, that interview process. I've always been fascinated with management consulting, you know, investment banking, like how they hire, because I would always see like English majors in the bond department, you know, at some big financial company, what would you be doing? Or what do you think you would be doing if you had never come across BCG cuz you were an art major, what did you plan on doing before that kind of fateful moment?
Susan (11:42):
Yeah. So I thought I was gonna go into some sort of arts management role. So my internships in college, where I had an internship with the Virginia museum of fine arts, you know, curatorial and fundraising, and trying to figure out where that might fit. I had an internship with Sotheby's looking at the whole auction house world. Yeah. I mean, and then I, I also did some, while I lived in Singapore, I actually did some writing, some kind of art criticism and interviewing artists. And so journalism was another potential path. But I think if I had never stumbled upon the business management consulting, MBA type of path, I would've ended up in that world.
Mike (12:24):
Okay. I, I ask because you know, it's, it's just so interesting to me. I was fascinated with like, we're supposed to discover ourselves kind of in college and figure out what we wanna do. And then we have all these experiences where we realize like, wow, the world's a lot bigger than I thought it was. And that seemed like it was kind of one of those moments for you. So I love kind of digging into that kind of stuff.
Susan (12:44):
Absolutely. As I have high school-aged children now who are, you know, especially in this world, we live in where we're all supposed to have a brand and they're like, why don't I know yet what I wanna do with my life? I'm like, whoa, you're 14. It's gonna be okay.
Mike (13:00):
Right. Okay. So we've talked a little bit about personal brand. I mean, in your eyes, what is a personal brand? Why is it important? Cause we do hear it all the time. Those two things, you know, what is it, why is it important?
Susan (13:11):
So for me, the way I like to think about it and I think the most important first way of thinking about it is your personal brand is really about that story that you tell about yourself. But what's important about that story? You're telling it to yourself as well, by the way. But what's really important about that story as a brand is that the brand is a relationship that you're building with whoever you're telling that story to. Right. I mean, that's true. If your brand is fruit loops like you're building a relationship with your consumer base. And so in a much more intimate way that brand, that, that story that you are telling that helps other people understand who you are and why they might wanna work with you, be friends with you, whatever, connect with you in some way. It's really about relationship building.
Susan (13:58):
And then yes, there's a, you know, more practical level, which the brand lives on whatever platform, you know, you're a speaker, you're a social media, you know, whatever your platforms are, you run a business, that's kind of where the brand gets expressed. I think that a lot of people start there, right? And they think that the brand is like, well, my brand is my Instagram account or right. Or my brand is my website. And I think that the best way to build a brand is to start a little further upstream from that and think about who you really are inside, where you really wanna be going, and what your values are. And then who do you wanna connect given all of that? Who do you wanna connect with? And then you can start to think about where and how you're gonna connect.
Mike (14:49):
Okay. So you gave some examples of like creatives entrepreneurs and things like that, consultants, and brands. And, and I, we talked to a lot of those types of people and we also talked to a lot of people who are just trying to find that next job. And I think what I kind of say is you're looking to stand out, right? Like, uh, you're hiring manager for whatever role is gonna get hundred thousand job applications. How do you stand out? And yep. Your brand platform is whatever the medium is there. Right. It could be as you know, drudgy as a resume, but it could be a cover letter. It could be how you reach out to that person and are definitely linked in. So it's all of those types of things. But what you said about connecting with making that connection and standing out, like that's kind of what it is to me. So what are some keys to a personal brand?
Susan (15:41):
So I think this is an answer to that question, but it also, I was thinking about when you were saying that, that, you know, you have all these different touchpoints, right? Your LinkedIn or your resume or whatever. And it's about connecting with those people that you wanna connect with. And that is true. As you said, whether you're looking for a job or you're starting a business, or, you know, you're doing some consulting, but what I like to think of it as, or the important piece of that is you are connecting with individuals. It's easy to get lost, especially in a world where it's easy to connect one to many on social media platforms. I think a lot of people then find that overwhelming, cuz they think, oh, I have to have something that's for everyone. Actually, those followings and those communities are built one relationship at a time.
Susan (16:28):
And if you just focus on that one relationship at a time, you will find your tribe. And so I think that's one of the keys. Another thing I always say is it needs to really be authentic. So before you start thinking about what other people want you to be or what they wanna hear, which, you know, we'll get there in a minute because it is important to speak in a language that connects with people. But before you do that, it needs to be really authentically you. Now what that does not mean is it does not need to be comprehensive. Right? So you're not gonna tell that whole story that I just told her.
Susan (17:22):
That's like a big ask, but it needs to be very genuine. And so it needs to come from a kind of who you really are and what you really value. And then you make the connection. This is the order in which I do work with people. So I have them start thinking about those things. And then as a second step, a few weeks later, then we're thinking about, okay, so who is in your tribe? Like, do you know, or can you imagine, what is that next step that you're going for? And you know, is it potential employers? Is it CEO's cuz you want a board seat? Is it C-suite executives because you wanna do consulting, whoever that is, let's think about what their world is about and what are their needs what's top of mind for them. And where does that connect with who you are and what you can offer?
Mike (18:06):
Okay. That's super helpful for me. I think obviously like branding, when you do one thing, right? And you've done one thing built one career, it at least seems like it's a little bit easier, but as we kind of talked about this zigzag career path winding road, that at least, at least you and I have definitely been on, I'm pretty sure a lot of our audience as well, I would go back and forth, but I feel like I, I would, a lot of times view the Zig Z career path as a negative because it was so hard. It just seemed so hard to put the story together. And I know, and I also think it kind of, in some ways, stunts growth, there's some stop-start to that, but you really seem to view this as, as a very big positive. I mean, I think you've ever even seen, you know, on your, on your website. I think it even says, uh, some of the smartest, most talented people are often all over the place in quotes, in their careers. You know, why do you view that as a big positive?
Susan (19:02):
I mean, that's just been, first of all, my anecdotal not database, but my anecdotal experience is that I meet all these amazingly talented people who by the way also are super educated and accomplished. And then you kind of secretly find out in a sidebar conversation. They're like actually I also do stand-up comedy. They're like what
Susan (19:52):
So you just have a broader network and get exposed to different ideas. And I think that then is very important for whenever you bring that stuff back from another bubble that you're a part of into the bubble you're working in at the moment, you're just thinking about things differently and you're bringing in new resources and it's, you're just more innovative as a result. And I think the other thing is that, you know, from a storytelling perspective, you mentioned being memorable and standing out, which is of course the ultimate, is this a good story or not? It's actually much easier to be memorable when you have that little spark. That's an unexpected thing. So one of my clients is a real estate agent building a book of business and now really trying to build a firm and after several sessions, it turn out that she was a very accomplished Broadway actress, an amazing singer, and lots of credentials under her belt in that sphere.
Susan (20:48):
But she never talked about it before in her real estate business. But wouldn't you remember, you know, if you're talking to five or six different real estate agents and they're all telling you, they're gonna help you with this or that? And then one of 'em is like, oh, that's so cool. She was on Broadway mm-hmm
Mike (21:58):
Yeah. I get what you say about innovation. I think there's just like, it's something about the different perspectives that you have when you combine experiences from, well, otherwise look at like disparate paths. It's always been a, I think, just a double-edged sword for me. Like I kind of have my alter ego, which I have a cousin who's like about my age, who has always been in, uh, kind of corporate consulting and same company the whole time. And I look at, at him and where he's at in, you know, in his life. And it's, I'm like, man, he just keeps working the flywheel, right? Like
Mike (22:43):
And other times I'm like, oh man, it just seems so easy too. So it's always this kind of push-pull, double-edged sword thing. But at the end of the day, I always come back to say, I wouldn't trade it for anything. Cause I think it absolutely. When you are able to sort of change your career path and conquer that challenge, you're just so much more, you know, resilient. And maybe at least for me, unafraid, to sort of pivot my career again or make a change or do something like go without some income for a while because that would normally be scary. But it's not anymore because I've been able to do that. So those are all things I'm, I've incorporated over the years into, I guess my brand story as like I'm the changer, I'm the guy that breaks work and trying to get other people too, you know, kind of break out of their work. So I totally resonate with that. Is that how you kind of see it too? Like
Susan (23:35):
It, yeah. And believe me, I have. And still sometimes have that thought process that you have when you see that person who actually seems really happy in what they're doing, but is one of those like they found that thing early and they just kept at it. And look how far they've gotten. You have that idea like, oh my gosh, did I waste a lot of time?
Susan (24:26):
And are you living the life that kind of makes you feel comfortable in your own skin and that you're getting something out of? So for me personally, then it's much more about like the richness of everything that's around me and this exploration than it is about how far I've gotten on the journey. That's not true for everybody, but I think it's important to do that work, to think about like, what you care about what's gonna make your life and work life feel successful, and that you have a sense of integrity about what you've done.
Mike (25:00):
Right. And it seems like right now the thing in the news is the great resignation people are. And, and I think you call it basically the great reassessment. I don't know if those things are exactly the same thing. So I'll, I'll let you talk about what the great reassessment is, but I mean, we're right in there and, and it is, I, it seems like people are poking their heads up to look from a 30,000-foot view instead of the 5,000-foot view and, and trying to say like, okay, what makes the most sense for me and how do I wanna live my life?
Susan (25:30):
Yeah. I think the great resignation is like, okay if you look at the data, you can actually see that people are resigning from their jobs and, or leaving the workforce in record numbers. I think the great reassessment, which by the way, I did not make up by actually reading it in the wall street journal maybe. And I thought, okay, this is very interesting to me because this is almost like the bigger picture from the resignation. And there's probably a whole bunch of people who are not even captured in that resignation data who are fundamentally reassessing what they do with their work. I mean, look at how all of us are just de facto reassessing, where we work just as a small portion of that, right? Are we in the office? Are we hybrid? Like, how are we managing meetings? Will we go back to conferences?
Susan (26:15):
And that's just a sliver of what your work life is about. And I, so I just think it's a moment where people feel some combination of safe to reassess because everyone else is doing it. Um, or, and, or compelled to reassess because things have changed and shifted beneath them. And now, okay, I have to really start thinking about this and, you know, once that reassessment and frankly, the zigzag becomes more normalized, it's just much easier to participate in it. And I think that the zigzag piece already was becoming much more normalized in the last, I don't know, 10 or 15 years ever since there was such a thing as an Etsy side hustle, suddenly the world had changed, you know, and if, I think like 20, 25 years ago, you would have to hide that from your employer. And I think nowadays, you know, if you're selling, I don't know, greeting cards on Etsy, your banking employer is probably like, that's pretty cool. Do you know? So I think it's a cultural shift that's been underway for a while. And I think the pandemic like it did with so many things accelerated and showed a spotlight on it.
Mike (27:28):
Yeah. COVID seemed to definitely accelerate underlying trends that were already there for sure. I mean, remote work, one of them, I run a remote small remote company. We were remote well before the pandemic, the idea that you can, as you said, side hustle, self-work, the internet, all of those types of things. Definitely underlying trends. Yeah. And culturally, I mean, when I hire somebody from my team, again, we're small, but we're all over the place. But I mean, one of the things I say is, do you have a side hustle going on? And that's because like, I, I actually want that. I want the person to be out there learning and, and doing something that they're sort of innately passionate about because whatever they learn is gonna be attributable to our business too. And it just makes people more creative. So that was one kind of one of the follow-ups. I wanted to say, like, it seems like one of the pieces in this whole reassessment is, is creativity about our careers overall, but also just getting creative in the work that we may do. If, if we have a job, how can people become more creative at work or just think about their careers in general?
Susan (28:34):
Well, you just nailed a huge piece of it, which is this intersection of, I call 'em spheres or bubbles. But by the way, I am gonna quote you about my clients who often worry about their potential employers thinking they're too scattered and whatnot. No, their potential employers are like, do you have a side hustle? Because that's a bonus. Like, it makes you a more interesting person and it's to your creativity question, that's how you become more creative at work, do more stuff, whatever it is, it doesn't really matter. You can have your hobby welding. Awesome. You're gonna bring some stuff from whatever those things you do are into your work. It could be reading, but I think the more things people are into the more interesting they are and the more creative they are when they tackle a problem.
Susan (29:37):
And she
Mike (30:28):
You've told us a couple of good stories about or examples of people who kind of have combined different worlds. Is there one that is your favorite or maybe one that's just like the craziest combination that comes to mind?
Susan (30:42):
Oh gosh. I think I gave you a lot of the good ones that have been top of mind.
Mike (31:15):
Yeah. So just, just to give you a couple of mine, and a lot of our audiences heard this, but I started my career as a future trader in Chicago finance. And then I ended up starting a business out of graduate school. No idea what I was doing, but we basically sold some proprietary software to companies that were like building satellites. So our little tiny, like invention went up in space in the largest satellite constellation in orbit. I had no background in that world at all. I worked with two smart engineers, but I was like trying to figure out how to make contact and sell. And so like went from trading to that, to content marketing on the internet. It's like, what? Like how can you possibly draw a string through that? And so I'm just always fascinated by the zigs and the zags that people take. It's so interesting.
Susan (32:14):
And I find that story exciting. I find all these Zig zag stories. Exciting. Right? It's like the unexpected is cool. And, and I think it's also just from back to what you said in the beginning, I have that on my website, I think the most interesting, intelligent, creative people if you scratch a tiny bit below the surface, you'll find they all have some version of that story.
Mike (32:37):
Yeah, definitely. I have a couple more questions. One of the things we do like to talk about here is when you do something different when you choose to make a change, what are kind of some of the steps that people take and these are often different? So I'm just curious from like your standpoint and the changes you made, maybe going to work for yourself, how did you make that decision? And what was maybe some of the things you thought about setting up so that you sort of ensure success in that transition?
Susan (33:04):
Yeah. Well, so it's interesting because you asked me the question of like, what should people do? And I started thinking, oh, there's like four or five things.
Susan (34:03):
And so when I left my company, I left with a business partner, which I definitely recommend that made it feel more legitimate. You have a thought partner, you have a cheerleader built in and you have an additional person to do business development. So I think we did that, right? Yeah, no, I think the people who knew us, particularly like the older people in our lives were like, so basically, you just quit your job.
Susan (34:52):
I have to leave, but my team is waiting for me. It was just a really challenging way to, for me, other people figure it out differently, but for me, it just didn't work. So that was one thing. And then, you know, you mentioned, how do you prepare for it? How do you make sure it's not that it's gonna be financially viable? I mean, that part, I just closed my eyes and leaped off the cliff, frankly. And I think I got lucky. We, you know, had clients right away and a steady stream of clients for the first two years then we had to dip, but at least we had like the, okay, we know how to do, you know, the confidence of, um, but I think that was a little bit of luck, a little bit of, you know, I didn't do it when I was 25.
Susan (35:34):
I did it when I was 35. So I, I kind of knew what I was doing. And I had confidence in that. I definitely had no idea whether I would be able to sell work because I had never done that. But I think going into it with a pretty good network and a pretty clear idea of what you're good at and what you wanna do is a good place to start. But, you know, and by the way, I think that kind of dumb luck jumping off the cliff, if you wanna frame it as such is also a strategy, cuz I think a lot of us can like, you know, a lot of people hold themselves back from doing something because well, you know, it needs to be better thought through and I'm not ready yet. And I'm not, I don't have enough money in the bank yet or whatever. And there are just certain things where you need to just kind of trust and you know, blind faith and trust also that if you fail, which inevitably you will if you do enough of these things, I've failed at plenty of things that you're gonna be able to get yourself back up, dust yourself off and figure it out. And I think that's just the sort of self-reflection confidence building and a little bit of trust in the universe that gets you there.
Mike (36:42):
Yeah. I wanna highlight a couple of things from that story, which is phenomenal, like one the necessity or at least the necessity instigating you to look at lifestyle design basically, right? This environment doesn't work for my holistic life. How do I build an income stream that does fit that, which is distinct from work
Susan (37:35):
But I just wanna say on that point, that was actually a strategy. The piece of it was freelancing. So when we first started our company, we were like, of course, if you're starting a company and not just freelancing, you wanna develop a client base where you're selling directly to your clients versus freelancing. I mean, at least in my world and probably in a lot of worlds, there's a lot of like a firm that needs you to come on as a temporary resource. So another consulting firm or brand agency, or now there's a ton of these like staffing companies or consultant aggregators. That's a different channel and that does not build my business and my brand, but boy, was it useful in those first few years, both the initial startup and then getting used to that boom and bus cycle that's inherent in a service business like that. And so I did use that strategically. Like I'm gonna take what is essentially a freelance job, which is even maybe a little too junior for what I do, because that's part of, of how we're funding this company. This is like part of our bootstrapping of this company.
Mike (38:39):
Yes, absolutely. That's a great point. Those things are completely distinct. I think of freelancing as who doesn't need to build a growth business but wants freedom and flexibility. They can do that and that could be their sole income stream, but it's also just a great transition mechanism to help you along the way, to building your side hustle into a full-time gig or, or whatever. I mean, I've done that, but, but you are selling your time to basically it ends meet. You're not building the business, getting clients, getting, you know, recurring revenue type of thing. So those are definitely different. But I think it's a fantastic transition strategy to use.
Susan (39:18):
I mean, it's a strategy as old as time, right? It's like the classic, I'm going to be an actor and I'm going to wait tables while I do that. It's just another version of that. Or one of my clients calls it, her barista strategy. I mean, she's never actually pulled the trigger on the barista strategy, but she uses it to help her think about when she's a film producer. And she said, whenever I'm worried about taking on a project, that's not that profitable or not likely to be profitable, but I really want it to be part of my portfolio, I think, okay, I have a portfolio strategy. I have this income stream over here, which is chugging along. Great. I'm gonna take this thing on. And I always have my rip cord, which is, I can always be a barista
Mike (40:00):
Yep. It's called fear setting, basically. That's the worst possible outcome. And if she's okay with that life, life's gonna be all right. All right. So you work with people one on one with personal branding. Talk to me about like your perfect client, somebody that gets the most out of what you do. And then I'm also gonna, after that, I'm gonna give you the floor to kind of say anything to our audience that you wanna say that maybe we missed or that you just wanna a point you wanna hammer home.
Susan (40:25):
Sure. So the people that generally seem to find me and enjoy working with me are, you know, that you're in a mode where you're going, what do I do next? Maybe you kind of has an idea pretty well cooked up and haven't launched it yet. Maybe you're actually a completely blank slate and you go, okay, I know I've done all these different things and I know I wanna do something kind of meaningful and impactful and sustainable financially, but I need help thinking about what that is, but you're in this moment of transition and you need to like you said, find them through the line of all the different things. So it is typically people who have a zigzag path who have a career, that's had a bunch of twists and turns and maybe they're on ramping or off ramping. Maybe they're just switching careers or starting a company.
Susan (41:16):
Um, but okay, how do I make sense of where I've been with a sense of integrity and confidence that I can bring to that story and how do I enter that question of what's next with all of that confidence and integrity? And then ultimately like help me write my brand story, right? Help me block and tackle, like help me write that thing that goes at the top of my LinkedIn page. And like that thing that I used to introduce myself at the next, you know, conference or zoom event or whatever. So yeah. And to your point, I do one on one coaching and I also do group workshops the next one is registration opens on August 1st and will take place in the fall. And those are groups of four who I work with weekly.
Mike (42:00):
Great. Is anything else you would like to say to the audience motivational or just anything? I might have been a bad host and glossed over.
Susan (42:08):
I just feel so strongly embraced your zigzag. This is a feature, not a bug. You know, we're all running around feeling guilty or somehow not good enough, right? Cause we aren't your friend,
Mike (42:46):
Excellent. Uh, the last question is just where can people find more about you and what you do on the internet? And we will make sure we have links to all this stuff in our show notes pages.
Susan (42:55):
Awesome. So my website is Susan Meier studio and Meier has a little bit of a funny spelling. So it's M E I E R, but you said you'll have the link in there. There is a page within my website, actually multiple pages, but if you go to personal branding within the website, all of the materials relating to what we talked about today are there, there's a free download also for, you know, five things you can do tomorrow to start on this journey. There's of course a little contact form where you can reach out to me with any questions.
Mike (43:26):
All right. Excellent. Thank you so much for being here, Susan. I really appreciate it. Uh, love the conversation. I love that there are more people out there championing the zigzag path. I'm not alone anymore.
Susan (43:38):
We are. We're a big crew. Yes,
Mike (43:41):
Have a great rest of your day. Have a great week and we will, uh, follow up and talk soon.
Susan (43:46):
You too. Thanks so much for having me on.
Mike (43:49):
All right. Take care.
Outro (43:49):
CareerCloud Radio is a production of CareerCloud.com. Please review this episode on iTunes. We really appreciate it a lot. And thank you for listening.
